mikaela.github.io/pages/discuss.markdown

---
title: Discuss
layout: page
permalink: /discuss.html
redirect_from: /discuss/index.html
excerpt: "Introduction to my public instant messaging chats"
navigation: true
---

I have a public instant messaging chatroom for comments to my
blog and other things I do. They are connected together by [Matterbridge](https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/#matterbridge).

As [Code of Conduct, Contributor Covenant applies](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/2/0/code_of_conduct/).<br>
I don't see a reason for forking it as this community is forming around me
and my website while I would have separate community for any actual Open
Source Software project if I begun any that grew bigger.

As for languages; English is preferred due to majority of the discussion
participants speaking it, but Finnish and Esperanto are also fine.<br> I sadly
don't consider myself capable of holding a discussion in other languages, but
I do hope to be able to grow this list in the future.

* IRC@Etro, [`#mikaela.info`](ircs://etro.mikaela.info:6697/#mikaela.info)
  my selfhosted IRC server.
  * [(Recommended) Gamja webchat](https://irc.etro.mikaela.info/#mikaela.info)
  * `MapAddress etro.mikaela.info otzmigofmchtadpek223bkmrzqoa6mmvhmr5dxqurcrtwalizfibuxid.onion`
* [LiberaChat], [`#mikaela.info`](ircs://irc.libera.chat:6697/#mikaela.info)
  * [Gamja webchat](https://web.libera.chat/gamja/#mikaela.info), [KiwiIRC webchat](https://web.libera.chat/#mikaela.info). *Warning: Libera.Chat has no message history*
  * `MapAddress palladium.libera.chat libera75jm6of4wxpxt4aynol3xjmbtxgfyjpu34ss4d7r7q2v5zrpyd.onion`
* [Matrix], [`#mikaela.info:matrix.org`](matrix:roomid/ruWhXaXgrPjaSSecvb:matrix.org?action=join&via=matrix.org&via=tedomum.net&via=the-apothecary.club),
  a decentralised conversation store.
  * [Convene webchat](https://letsconvene.im/app/#/join/%23mikaela.info:matrix.org)
* [PirateIRC], [`#mikaela.info`](ircs://irc.pirateirc.net:6697/#mikaela.info)
  * [Gamja webchat](https://webchat.pirateirc.net/)
  * `MapAddress irc.pirateirc.net cbmtec5xuhpjwjq245kpp5jk2wij63ydgu5vwbxvdamzibfubc5uzaqd.onion`
* [Telegram], [invite link](https://t.me/joinchat/OEuthjzmg60xNzA0) a
  popular instant messenger with open source clients.
* [Twitch], [Ciblia](https://twitch.tv/Ciblia), a propietary game streaming
  platform.
  * Expect my streaming to happen in [mikaela@libremedia.video](https://libremedia.video/accounts/mikaela/)
    (PeerTube) instead.
* [XMPP], [`mikaela.info@conference.blesmrt.net`](xmpp:mikaela.info@conference.blesmrt.net?join),
  a federated chat protocol.

[ErgoChat]:https://ergo.chat/
[LiberaChat]:https://libera.chat/
[NixNet IRC]:https://docs.nixnet.services/IRC
[Matrix]:https://matrix.org/
[PirateIRC]:https://pirateirc.net/
[Telegram]:https://telegram.org/
[Twitch]:https://twitch.tv/
[XMPP]:https://xmpp.org/

* * * * *

## A couple of words on protocols

* *IRC* was invented in 1988 and regardless of developing integrated message
  storage since then, it's still *trivial to setup* and runs well on *a toaster*.
  *IRC servers* are generally *[easy to enable Tor support on](https://github.com/ergochat/ergo/blob/master/docs/MANUAL.md#tor)* and *IRC clients*
  widely come with *[proxy settings](https://hexchat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tips.html#tor)* where *[Tor can be enabled](https://weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_user.en.html#irc_tor_sasl)*. My personal
  *IRC* history begins in 2010 as user and since then I have also opered
  mostly on *Charybdis+Atheme* and nowadays on a couple of *Ergos*.
* *XMPP* runs on *a bit more powerful toaster* and the servers talk to each other
  without prior approval, it was originally introduced in 1999. I don't have
  a record on when I begun using it as *all multi-protocol chat apps* that were
  common even before 2010 supported it. I haven't had a need or desire to *selfhost*.
* *Telegram* was introduced in 2013 and is a popular *instant messenger* with
  many *open source clients (not server)* also on minority platforms (by third
  parties). It's favoured by many for stickers and ease-to-use, while that
  comes with *concern on security and privacy*.
* *Matrix* was introduced in 2014 and I started using it in 2016. Many of the
  *client and server implementations are heavy*, *especially on server side* requiring what to outside looks
  like *a constant maintenance* to deal with the *implementation performance issues*,
  *I am not interested in even trying to selfhost a Matrix (home)server and bridges
  until the situation significantly improves*. *[Matrix clients also seldom support connecting through Tor easily](https://github.com/vector-im/element-meta/issues/200)*,
  while the *[Synapse server by Matrix.org team doesn't support connecting](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/5152) through [I2P or Tor](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/5455) at [all](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/7088)*.

## And on transports, relays and bridges

* One of the marketing points of *XMPP* was to connect to other protocols by
  means of transports. They plug into a *XMPP server* and can be provided either
  by yours or be open for other *XMPP servers*.
* The word *relay* is often used on *bots which copy messages from one protocol/network
  and paste (or more simply said relay) it to another*. They aren't transparent and thus the
  messages from them appear to be coming from bots beginning with the message
  sender instead of being completely transparent. This is what is *commonly
  used on IRC to connect to other IRC networks or protocols*.
  * *Matterbridge regardless of the name acts like a relay. Like IRC and XMPP*,
    it also *runs on a toaster requiring only [the binary](https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/releases)
    and a [config file](https://gitea.blesmrt.net/mikaela/gist/src/branch/master/irc/matterbridge/matterbridge-example.toml)*
    being trivial to setup anywhere quickly or move around.
  * *[Recent IRC development allows (RELAYMSG)](https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/417)*
    allows relays to be transparent making messages appear from users outside
    of the channel that don't actually exist. This is similar to *Discord webhooks
    (that Matterbridge also supports) and Matrix Discord bridge*.
  * Common complaint from *Matrix* users is that they look ugly, but as shown
    by *IRC and Discord*, that doesn't have to be the case
    *[and I hope Matrix will fix their issue allowing low-budget "toasterbridges"](https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/840)*.
* *Bridges are popularised by Matrix* and *are almost XMPP transports*. However
  while *XMPP transports connect to the other protocol, bridges attempt to
  copy everything on both sides* so *Matrix users* see each other directly instead
  of through the *transport* on the other side and on the other side of *open protocols*
  *Matrix users* can be interacted with as if they were native to it.
  * Unlike *XMPP*, the *bridges also tend to be heavy and require a full homeserver
    setup.* The *IRC bridge also generally requires blessing from the IRC network*
    and while some public bridges exist, they *move the control away from you*
    hijacking the room to *their rules* and often have *performance trouble
    compared to "local toaster matterbridge".*