--- title: Discuss layout: page permalink: /discuss.html redirect_from: /discuss/index.html excerpt: "Introduction to my public instant messaging chats" navigation: true --- I have a public instant messaging chatroom for comments to my blog and other things I do. They are connected together by [Matterbridge](https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/#matterbridge). As [Code of Conduct, Contributor Covenant applies](https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/2/0/code_of_conduct/).
I don't see a reason for forking it as this community is forming around me and my website while I would have separate community for any actual Open Source Software project if I begun any that grew bigger. See also [my Matrix page on etiquette](/matrix/index.html#is-there-any-kind-of-matrix-etiquette-i-should-know-about). As for languages; English is preferred due to majority of the discussion participants speaking it, but Finnish and Esperanto are also fine.
I sadly don't consider myself capable of holding a discussion in other languages, but I do hope to be able to grow this list in the future. - IRC@Etro, [`#mikaela.info`](ircs://etro.mikaela.info:6697/#mikaela.info) my selfhosted IRC server. - [(Recommended) Gamja webchat](https://irc.etro.mikaela.info/#mikaela.info) - `MapAddress etro.mikaela.info otzmigofmchtadpek223bkmrzqoa6mmvhmr5dxqurcrtwalizfibuxid.onion` - [LiberaChat], [`#mikaela.info`](ircs://irc.libera.chat:6697/#mikaela.info) - [Gamja webchat](https://web.libera.chat/gamja/#mikaela.info), [KiwiIRC webchat](https://web.libera.chat/#mikaela.info). _Warning: Libera.Chat has no message history_ - `MapAddress palladium.libera.chat libera75jm6of4wxpxt4aynol3xjmbtxgfyjpu34ss4d7r7q2v5zrpyd.onion` - [Matrix], [`#mikaela.info:matrix.org`](matrix:roomid/ruWhXaXgrPjaSSecvb:matrix.org?action=join&via=matrix.org&via=tedomum.net&via=the-apothecary.club), a decentralised conversation store. - [Convene webchat](https://letsconvene.im/app/#/join/%23mikaela.info:matrix.org) - [PirateIRC], [`#mikaela.info`](ircs://irc.pirateirc.net:6697/#mikaela.info) - [Gamja webchat](https://webchat.pirateirc.net/) - `MapAddress irc.pirateirc.net cbmtec5xuhpjwjq245kpp5jk2wij63ydgu5vwbxvdamzibfubc5uzaqd.onion` - [Telegram], [invite link](https://t.me/joinchat/OEuthjzmg60xNzA0) a popular instant messenger with open source clients. - [Twitch], [Ciblia](https://twitch.tv/Ciblia), a propietary game streaming platform. - Expect my streaming to happen in [mikaela@libremedia.video](https://libremedia.video/accounts/mikaela/) (PeerTube) instead. - [XMPP], [`mikaela.info@conference.blesmrt.net`](xmpp:mikaela.info@conference.blesmrt.net?join), a federated chat protocol. [ergochat]: https://ergo.chat/ [liberachat]: https://libera.chat/ [nixnet irc]: https://docs.nixnet.services/IRC [matrix]: https://matrix.org/ [pirateirc]: https://pirateirc.net/ [telegram]: https://telegram.org/ [twitch]: https://twitch.tv/ [xmpp]: https://xmpp.org/ --- - [A couple of words on protocols](#a-couple-of-words-on-protocols) - [And on transports, relays and bridges](#and-on-transports-relays-and-bridges) --- ## A couple of words on protocols - _IRC_ was invented in 1988 and regardless of developing integrated message storage since then, it's still _trivial to setup_ and runs well on _a toaster_. _IRC servers_ are generally _[easy to enable Tor support on](https://github.com/ergochat/ergo/blob/master/docs/MANUAL.md#tor)_ and _IRC clients_ widely come with _[proxy settings](https://hexchat.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tips.html#tor)_ where _[Tor can be enabled](https://weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_user.en.html#irc_tor_sasl)_. My personal _IRC_ history begins in 2010 as user and since then I have also opered mostly on _Charybdis+Atheme_ and nowadays on a couple of _Ergos_. - _XMPP_ runs on _a bit more powerful toaster_ and the servers talk to each other without prior approval, it was originally introduced in 1999. I don't have a record on when I begun using it as _all multi-protocol chat apps_ that were common even before 2010 supported it. I haven't had a need or desire to _selfhost_. - _Telegram_ was introduced in 2013 and is a popular _instant messenger_ with many _open source clients (not server)_ also on minority platforms (by third parties). It's favoured by many for stickers and ease-to-use, while that comes with _concern on security and privacy_. - _Matrix_ was introduced in 2014 and I started using it in 2016. Many of the _client and server implementations are heavy_, _especially on server side_ requiring what to outside looks like _a constant maintenance_ to deal with the _implementation performance issues_, _I am not interested in even trying to selfhost a Matrix (home)server and bridges until the situation significantly improves_. _[Matrix clients also seldom support connecting through Tor easily](https://github.com/vector-im/element-meta/issues/200)_, while the _[Synapse server by Matrix.org team doesn't support connecting](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/5152) through [I2P or Tor](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/5455) at [all](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/7088)_. ## And on transports, relays and bridges - One of the marketing points of _XMPP_ was to connect to other protocols by means of transports. They plug into a _XMPP server_ and can be provided either by yours or be open for other _XMPP servers_. - The word _relay_ is often used on _bots which copy messages from one protocol/network and paste (or more simply said relay) it to another_. They aren't transparent and thus the messages from them appear to be coming from bots beginning with the message sender instead of being completely transparent. This is what is _commonly used on IRC to connect to other IRC networks or protocols_. - _Matterbridge regardless of the name acts like a relay. Like IRC and XMPP_, it also _runs on a toaster requiring only [the binary](https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/releases) and a [config file](https://gitea.blesmrt.net/mikaela/gist/src/branch/master/irc/matterbridge/matterbridge-example.toml)_ being trivial to setup anywhere quickly or move around. - _[Recent IRC development allows (RELAYMSG)](https://github.com/ircv3/ircv3-specifications/pull/417)_ allows relays to be transparent making messages appear from users outside of the channel that don't actually exist. This is similar to _Discord webhooks (that Matterbridge also supports) and Matrix Discord bridge_. - Common complaint from _Matrix_ users is that they look ugly, but as shown by _IRC and Discord_, that doesn't have to be the case _[and I hope Matrix will fix their issue allowing low-budget "toasterbridges"](https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec/issues/840)_. - _Bridges are popularised by Matrix_ and _are almost XMPP transports_. However while _XMPP transports connect to the other protocol, bridges attempt to copy everything on both sides_ so _Matrix users_ see each other directly instead of through the _transport_ on the other side and on the other side of _open protocols_ _Matrix users_ can be interacted with as if they were native to it. - Unlike _XMPP_, the _bridges also tend to be heavy and require a full homeserver setup._ The _IRC bridge also generally requires blessing from the IRC network_ and while some public bridges exist, they _move the control away from you_ hijacking the room to _their rules_ and often have _performance trouble compared to "local toaster matterbridge"._